I think Debbie Schlussel's article on CH.info was an overreaction. True no one should be a bigot and say one race in pretty and another is not, besides it being such a subjective quality in the first place. Which goes to show; she is not the smartest cat in the room that Essman, and the whole view crew are all idiots (some are really pretty). But what I find interesting is; they still don’t know what a Frum Jew is. Thousands of years have passed, we have been around a long time, and the world still does not know who we are? “they are like Muslims”? They don’t know out basic way of life… We still marry the brother of a dead husband? What the hell?
Are we that hard to understand? Are we that complicated? Are we that irrational?
http://www.crownheights.info/index.php?itemid=15386
http://video.aol.com/video-detail/susie-essman-on-the-view-012109-5-of-5/1835848837/?icid=VIDURVENT07
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22 comments:
First of all, that was debbie schlussel's article, not ch.info's. Second of all, I agreed with it completely. A lot of the people who watch that show are Jewish, and don't know too much about Judaism. That interview certainly did not help the cause.
TRS,
We will analyze this together.
Look at the clip, look at the clothing she is wearing and look at the wig. Do we dress like that? Some hard-core Lubavitchers would like that, but we don’t. So who got it wrong; the actress? She admits not knowing anything at all. She is oblivious to out customs, so the conclusion is that the producers are to blame, they stereotype us to look ugly and wear nasty clothing. The actress saw this and it made an impression on her. Is she to blame for falling into the stereotype? We should blame the producers, writers, and costume designers for being ill informed. This is my point.
Now on to the interview, she is an eccentric comedian; they say things that are funny and a bit off. She is neither a politician nor a PR woman. She went on a show that is not very reliable. It’s a third tier talk show. Now one of them says the plot is “wacky” is that wrong? We don’t practice it now for a reason.
“they are not very good dressers”- See above.
About her “ehhhhh”…… she is a comedian for G-D sake and to prove it; she herself said she does not know any Hasidic Jews. She had to use a republican marrying her daughter for a reference point… Come on.(How funny is that she pictured a right-wing republican? She is not getting a PHD in western religion anytime soon)
I just don’t see and hate or negative connotations besides the “wacky plot” and the “see what they look like half the time”-bad dress thing which has nothing to do with debasing our religion and race. Now again it should not have been said, and they should apologize for implying that we are less good looking then other races, which like I said is more idiotic then bigotry. Does it deserve a rant? No! She is a comedian and she was kidding around. She even says about herself she is not good looking. How serious can this conversation be? Is she knocking the race she herself is part of?
The reactions of these sites totally get to me. Yes, there are gorgeous chassidic women, but let's be honest, there are many not such appealing ones. And the way they dress makes them standout big time. Especially wandering around Manhattan. The well-dressed beautiful chassidic women fit in more and don't get turned into the but of comedian's jokes.
I don't think it was the right thing to say on TV but cummon, it's not like they're spreading the Protocols over here. They're only commenting on what they see. Why does every slight have to be an scandal of deep-rooted anti-semitism?
(Granted they wouldn't hear the end of it if they called fat black women ugly and bad dressers, but the point remain, these Jews gotta chill.)
Another thing that is pissing me off about this whole thing is how it's being juxtaposed to the Mumbai tragedy. It minimizes the horror of the tragedy when every wise-crack gets put on equal moral grounds. Same goes with people throwing the words Nazi and Hitler around.
What's worse then the author's response is some of the typical naive comments coming up on the Lubavitch news rags.
Nemo,
I could not have said it better myself. You summed it up. This Mumbai thing has been abused beyond repair. Every shiur is about Mumbai; all Chabad's Religious propaganda is now about Mumbai. It’s sickening.
And you know where I stand regarding the common Lubavitchers vacuous comments.
^ On those dopey news sites;
Whatever. I happen to not like getting bashed by people who have no idea what's happening on national tv. If you don't mind it-well, kol hakavod.
Maybe i am just not an orthodox woman.
that's a possibility we'll have to consider.
Are we that hard to understand? Are we that complicated? Are we that irrational?
Yes.
BTW, you gotta work on the formatting of this blog. I'ts really annoying to read. Definitely do away with the Times New Roman.
Does anyone know where I can watch this garbage? It's the latest topic of outrage at my (YI) shul and I need to keep up with the post shacharis coffee conversation
Modeh, if you find out, let me know. I saw a preview for it and I only have good to say about it so far ... for the first time in a movie portraying Ortho Jews, it looks they they finally had the good sense to get real Borsalinos. They even put the Lubavitch pinch in it.
(I can just picture the guys in the hat shop on Kingston Ave. convincing these CBS folks that if they want to look authentic, they have to buy the real $225 McCoy.
Nemo, just want to say this to you and all readers; your comments about improving this blog are always welcomed.
I don't know Nemo; they seem to understand tribes in ancient India better then they do us, why?
We live in their midst.
So? Do explain.
Lots of implications.
1. They're not free to conjecture whatever they want about our way of life because they'll be duly corrected or bombarded by emails. You can pretty much decide whatever you want about the nuances of ancient Indian traditions and no one can really question you.
2. The intrigue/ominousness/bizareness of Chassidic Judaism is right in their face, which leads to all sorts of assumptions, impressions, stereotypes and biases. Ancient India (or even modern India) is so far removed that it maintains it's mystique.
You bring up so good points, but anthropology is a study. They know religion’s around the world amazingly well. But when it comes to ours there are so many misconceptions. We have been around Europe and America so long, you would think that they know that a lot of us do not wear the clothing the Satmar wear, and a lot of us go to college. They would know our basic laws and why we do them;
We don’t marry the brother of the dead husband. How can people even think we do? It is so fundamental and yet they get away with such a blatant misconception. How? That is my question; How?
We have been in their backyard for over 200 hundred years. How?
There are some seriously bizarre religions in Asia. But they all seem to love and know those ones.
How do you know that anthropology knows religions around the world "amazingly well?" Maybe if King Pharaoh was around today he'd be complaining about how people misunderstood his minhogim, took him for a vile blood-bathing fiend and all sorts of other conceptions we have about him, when really those were normal rituals carried on in those days? Do you really think that contemporary understanding of ancient rituals isn't fraught with misconception?
When I was watching '7 Years in Tibet' a number of years ago, I thought to myself, "I wonder if there's a Tibetan monk in a theater somewhere with his blood raging right now." Do you think they got everything accurately in that movie? I tend to doubt it.
They would know our basic laws and why we do them;
I doubt it. I mean, I went to Jewish schools all my life and I'm still figuring out why we do some of the things we do. Do you think that some non-Orthodox or non-Jewish women on a daytime talk show should know any better? We're not talking about basic Jewish beliefs here like monotheism or Shabbos, we're talking about something much more nuanced. They may even know that Jews appear in a certain way (wigs, kappotes, peyos, etc.) or don't shake hands with women. But why do you think that everyone in NYC understands religious reasoning behind uniquely Jewish practices? It's not like they all went to cheder or Manis Friedman affairs.
Even if they did know or do their homework and learn about the wig, would their jokes have been any different? Would an explanation about se'ar b'isha erva or some chassidic wisdom make them change their opinion and become any more understanding? The concept of hiding your beauty is foreign to them that they can't understand why a women, who isn't beautiful in the conventional sense, would have to hide that beauty.
We don’t marry the brother of the dead husband. How can people even think we do?
This isn't exactly common knowledge. Then again, the concept of yibbum isn't common knowledge. You would think that people that did their research enough to get the proper chalitza shoe would have found out what is contemporary Jewish practice. But then there wouldn't be much of a movie, would there ...
There are some seriously bizarre religions in Asia. But they all seem to love and know those ones.
I doubt it. Your average Joe in America thinks all things foreign religions are odd. Although, granted a "cultured" lady like Barbara Walters should know a little better ... But don't you think that these people also think the Muslims and Hindus walking around NYC are weird?
Well said, well said.
I just thought at least the MO Jewish community has more influence in the world. We are a very famous nation and Israel is a very famous land. True other religions who cares right? But most of them care about us. I would think at least they would know the MO aspects. we were in Europe with the great intellectuals.
About the movie;
How many of the viewers know a MO Jew?
You do bring up a good point.
Bray of Fundie on http://dovbear.blogspot.com/ said it well;
Really makes a guy wonder. When I see the howlers mainstream media print and Hollywood disseminates about topic that I have a passing familiarity with I've got to at least entertain the following possibility: While not exactly on the level of a screenwriter taking artistic liberties in an act of fiction I still suspect...SUSPECT, that maybe scientists mock the Science Times, that historians roll their eyes at biopics, that veterans double-over laughing at war movies and that economists and captains of industry scoff at the financial pages or at least pop-media representations about the inner workings of the economy .
Come to law school. We laugh at US Supreme Court opinions.
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