Age old.

Wednesday, January 28, 2009
Since I am going to get opposition and counter-arguments for my view, I am going to use the immortal Nemo counter-arguments, since they are the obvious ones;

“Practically and definitively this is an impossibility.”

It is only impossible since we make it so. Just like the previous post about change. John Adams had to convince people that we should break off from England’s sovereignty. It took him a long time, and many hours convincing the Continental Congress that is was the right and just way to act. We needed change. People thought he was crazy, that we did not have the army or power to defeat the English. But he did it. And now he and his companions are in the history books as the greatest leaders in the history of man.

“Were it decided that he was replaceable, there certainly wouldn't be any agreement about who should take the position.”

They elders disagreed about the LR in the first place. It is funny how we forget history and decide a new leader does not exist. It would, if we searched for it. And it would if the youth gather together and choose that man to lead them. It has already started; look at Beis Shmuel. We don’t need a consensus. All we need is a group of people in the hundreds that get together and build on how he directs things to be. He will give advice, he well lead. It can and should be done. Just because some like to think that there is not anybody around to lead, and because no one can live up to the LR, does not make it right. We had a leader after Moshe. We had a leader after R’ Yehudah Hanassi. We have had leaders that have following monumental figures in Jewish history. We had kings after great king. We need a leader; so we take what we can get, enough of the idea that the new leader has to measure up to a romantic figure.

By the way; the Rebbe was not G-D, and not everyone keeled at his legs. Fisher scammed the Rebbe in his face. People used to fight for power in his face. The Rebbe demanded 770 renovated, but money went elsewhere. The Rebbe demanded tons of things that people just spat at, did not listen one bit. This romantic view of the Rebbe is simply wrong. We are rewriting history. Some will say the Rebbe avoided all confrontation because no one would have listened to him, so he just kept the status quo regarding many matters, enough of this BS.

“And on the definitional level, he said that Dor Hashvi'i is the first generation of Geulah.”” “made Lubavitch the global empire it is today. It is fundamentally irreconcilable with appointing a new Rebbe”

Well Moses told the Jews that they would go to Eretz Yisroel and he was wrong. The Alter Rebbe made a deadline for Moshiach, he was wrong. The Rambam made a deadline and he too was wrong. Many leaders said things to inspire the nation and they turned out to be wrong. If we did not face this we would never live. We move on. We always have and we always will until the true and final redemption.

Until then, you need to pay your mortgage and you need to save money for your kids wedding. You need to plan for the future in case that our sins get in the way. Same thing goes for a teacher, mentor, someone to unite the people and lead them. To teach a collective body how to act in the new and improved world. Face the challenges of today. Face the reality that the Rebbe was wrong. Maybe he was right at the time, and we screwed it up royally. I don’t know. But what I do know is that it’s coming up on two decades and our kids are not going to buy these foolish arguments. They won’t understand. They will be looking for guidance. Who are we going to choose for them?

Learn Jewish history. We overcame worse catastrophes, worse repressions. What did we do? We taught our youth and we bred leaders. We set up a good school system, we pushed our children and we squeezed our hearts to find greatness. It is time to push, fight, and search once again.

11 comments:

Nemo said...

My only advice: start a new branch of Judaism. Call it Beis Shmuel, Malachim, or whatever. This group called Lubavitch is carrying a lot of dead weight (no pun intended).

Rationally pious said...

Ha no pun taken. You maybe right. It might be a cooked ideology. Before we ask for a transplant we try and save the heart.

shmulie said...

These are some grievances.

But before all that, what is it in Lubavitch that you seek to preserve?

Rationally pious said...

The perfected balance of rational and emotional. It's rich history. It's rich and enduring love of other Jews. It's balance with modern thinking and conservative values. It's rich intellectual and motivational texts of Chassidus(Yes TRS it is rich, of that i am sure).

It's the Fabrangens that bring all walks of life, to talk about life. The unity and brotherly love.

Lubavitch has the most to offer, in my opinion, and i have been around to Litvish houses, and i have seen hardcore Charedei's in Bnei Brak.

shmulie said...

Oh brother, I think you're barking up the wrong tree.

Rational? Not in the least. Except inasmuch as it allows the teachings of the Baal Shem Tov, namely pure emunah, to penetrate the intellect.

Rationally pious said...

I have no idea what you just said, Do explain the whole emunah Besh"T stuff.

shmulie said...

Motivational texts? Like a self help book? Goodness no. Have a look at what they claim themselves to be. The Truth with a capital T.

Tanya? The introduction describes it as a Yechidus with the Alter Rebbe. Nothing is put in your hands, you're still accepting the preeminence of another human.

shmulie said...

K. The Baal Shem Tov taught that one needn't posses say, talmudic expertise, to serve G-d. Just faith, and the resulting emotions.

The Alter Rebbe taught that this faith, this G-d of the Baal Shem Tov must subsume a person's entire existence. Actually that's classical Judaism, that no place is devoid of him. Sort of. Anyhow, he set out to allow a person's highest faculty, his intellect, which because of its empirical bent is resistant to faith, to be taken as well by the effort to know G-d in his limited, vested form.

From an intellectual standpoint, you might say it's an exercise in futility. Like the shadows projected on the wall of Plato's (or was it that other greek?) cave.

Of course, it never claims more than that.

Rationally pious said...

So who cares that they claim to be the truth? That should bother me?

Yes I do think it is motivational, and often what the text says is right. It is no different than going to a psychologist. They tell you a balancing view. We self balance our emotions. I don’t see a problem with this, and don’t claim they are the only ones, but at least Lubavitch is open to questions. And the doctrine is more clear then others.

“Nothing is put in your hands; you're still accepting the preeminence of another human.”

We accept the President of the USA. What is your point?

The whole Besh”t thing does not sound right. He said you can do it on faith, for those who don’t have the power or intelligence. Remember he lived in an era when it was hard to learn. People did not have money and were persecuted. He instilled in them a pure love for G-D. But the ones who could learn, of course he demanded that they do. He demanded they understand, and fight to understand.

The Rabbi’s that followed him, took this to the extreme, decided that there is a leader and it all falls on to him, that there is no independent thought or independent height’s to achieve. Judaism went downhill after that, at least the Charedi part.

And I don’t get the AR thing either. The AR did not say it is an option. He demanded and says it’s a commandment to understand G-D, with the simple caveat that there is a limit. But the fact that he allowed it is simply wrong. He demanded independent thinking and independent spiritual labor.

The Gra held that one not need labor only thinking. Permeate your being with intellect and you won’t have the desire to sin. Become a student and you will seize to feel uncouth. This led to the other part of Judaism to fall. We became indifferent and apathetic. We began to serve intellect.

All in all I think the AR got it right; Balance.

shmulie said...

Alright, if you don't want to move to email, I'll end off this way.

All that stuff you mentioned sounds like a pretty weak reason for keeping this petrified dinosaur around. Not to mention trying to raise kids on it.

But if that's the stuff, have a go at it. It just looks like you have the mix figured out. Why, if you'll excuse another metaphor, keep beating a dead horse?

Rationally pious said...

You do bring up a good point. But there are benefits to religion.

I think we can change.I think it is our duty to help the world around us. Improve the universe and right the wrongs. What are we if we only live for ourselves?